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Collapse of public-sector bargaining
Commentary AUG. 22, 2011 By LANNY EBENSTEIN There can be little question that great change is in the offing in our society in many areas, including the provision of public services. Public-sector employees are overpaid. They are overpaid across the board, in salary, overtime, benefits, health insurance, days off, holidays, vacations, working conditions and, most of all, pensions. Public-sector employees receive compensation that private-sector workers do not. If public-sector employees in California were paid a fair wage, not an inflated one, it would be possible to lower taxes and increase public services in the state, not raise taxes and slash services. The answer is to end collective bargaining for public employees. President Franklin Roosevelt said that there was a great distinction between private and public sector unions: “Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. … The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public sector.” George Meany, the first and longtime president of the AFL-CIO, was of the same opinion. Ending public-sector collective bargaining would enable each local government agency in the state, and the state itself, to establish the pay cutbacks and benefit reductions that will make sense for it. The status quo is unsustainable. In a democracy, it will not be the case that programs for seniors, children, the environment, the ill, the unemployed, the infirm and the homeless will be eviscerated to enable the remaining public servants and public-sector retirees to live in luxury. Wealth TransferLocal and state governments were not created to be vehicles of wealth transfer from society as a whole to public-sector employees and retirees through regressive taxation. Current government tax and spending policies take from the poor and give to the relatively rich. Public-sector employees work fewer hours than other employees because they have more days off. The typical public employee in California works a four-day week or less. After working fewer hours during their careers, public-sector employees can retire at a younger age — often age 50 to 55 — with pensions, indexed for inflation, of 75 to 90 percent of their final salary. It is time to end public-sector collective bargaining in California. Public-sector employees work less while they are working and they retire at an earlier age by a decade or more than private-sector workers, and retire with much better pension benefits. This system has to change, and it has to change now. The question is the direction that change will take. Ending public-sector collective bargaining is the right answer to the problems that face California. Lanny Ebenstein is president of the California Center for Public Policy
Tags: collective bargaining, Franklin Roosevelt, George Meany, Lanny Ebenstein, pensions Comments(29) |
June 19, 2013
Local and state governments were not created to be vehicles of wealth transfer from society as a whole to public-sector employees and retirees through regressive taxation
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THANK YOU!
That said it all. GED cops ff’s and everyone in between getting mutli-million dollar pensions at age 50- paid off the backs of the poor and middle class through regressive taxes like the sales tax.
Labor unions are the strong arm of the Socialist agenda. A tool for redistributing the wealth and bringing down our economy so that Communism, specifically Marxism, can be instilled in a former free society.
Collective bargaining, which forces the employer to the bargaining table, has no place in civilized society. Anywhere. The employer’s right to walk away from the table should always be recognized.
What a hack job. You should be Hode in shame. Those who bitch and moan and groan over public employees pay and benefit frame th issue wrong. You should be asking why can’t I get my employer psy me more whith better benefits.
When this hack job hit public worksights the laughs will start and a lmost everyone ends the little break by sayings: WELL THERE GOES Another one to stupid to get a public service JOB!!!!!
The system will correct itself in time. In the meantime, there will be fewer public employees, constant “no money for that” and few new employees will not get to feed as fat at the early-retirement-high-pay trough as the current ones. Just another Baby Boomer gift to themselves at the expense of their children and grandchildren.
Curtis Walker:
1) If you want to make more, do what it takes – study hard, work hard, work smart, save, invest, avoid debt, avoid drugs and such.
2) Employers obtain employees in a marketplace. If you were an employer and could readily find people to work for $200 per day, why would you want to pay $300? How long would you stay in business if you were paying $300, and the competition was paying $200 and selling their product at a significantly lower price than you could charge? This is basic economics. I’d suggest reading the columns and books of Dr. Walter Williams, and Free to Choose by Milton and Rose Friedman.
Governments always tend towards wasting tax money, and overpaying employees is one of the greatest forms of waste. There would be a line of well-qualified people around the block to apply if most government jobs were advertised at half the current pay and benefits.
What a hack job. You should be Hode in shame. Those who bitch and moan and groan over public employees pay and benefit frame th issue wrong. You should be asking why can’t I get my employer psy me more whith better benefits.
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Actually you’re the one who has it wrong, but coming from an incomptenet public trough feeding piglet that is no surpise. You cannot compensate unskilled, GED educated gov employees $200K per year, and $350K with overtime, in the real world-you go BK, understand now baby Einstein.
WalMart is the largest private employer in America and the world, they pay $9 an hour and have a corporate policy against overtime-so YOU and your trough feeding buddies are, as usual, off your GED educated rocker.
There would be a line of well-qualified people around the block to apply if most government jobs were advertised at half the current pay and benefits.
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Department of Prisons had 920 job openings last year and had 125,000 applicants.
The typical muni FF opening has 500-1,000 job appicants PER OPENING.
The typical muni cop job has 400-500 job applicants per ONE OPENING.
My local water district had a part time 20 hour per week job open up, had 520 job applications.
Dream on. A bunch of KADAFFEES hiding in bunkers do not give up power….
Deam on!
“Rex ther Wonder Dog!” (wish I knew your real name): Where did you find those fascinating statistics?
The water district was in my local paper, the prison guard stat was in the LA Times I believe, and the cop and ff stats are from local muni’s;
California Prison Academy: Better Than a Harvard Degree
Prison guards can retire at the age of 55 and earn 85% of their final year’s salary for the rest of their lives. They also continue to receive medical benefits.
“The application process may seem like a piece of cake compared to Harvard’s, but the correctional officer academy is actually more selective than Harvard. Over 120,000 people apply every year, according to the state Legislative Analyst’s Office, but the academy only enrolls about 900.”
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576285471510530398.html
Lanny, EXCELLENT summary.
I would change only ONE thing. Where YOU said …”Ending public-sector collective bargaining is the right answer to the problems that face California.”
I would replace “California” with all “State, County, City, and Municipal governments”
Curtis is correct. Nothing more than a hack job with a political agenda.
By LANNY EBENSTEIN
“They are overpaid across the board, in salary…”
It is a well known fact that professional employees such as attorneys, IT professionals, scientists, engineers, etc. are Highly Underpaid in salary compared to the private sector.
“The typical public employee in California works a four-day week or less.”
The typical public employee works a 40 hour week. It MAY be 4 ten hour days. For the mathematically challenged 8 x 5 = 4 x 10 = 40 hours per week.
“public-sector employees can retire at a younger age — often age 50 to 55 — with pensions, indexed for inflation, of 75 to 90 percent of their final salary.”
I retired at 90% of final salary after starting at the age of 18 and retiring at 59. Do I need to do Math 101 again? 59 – 18 = 41 years @ 59 years old, NOT 50 or 55.
Do your editorializing with facts, Lanny. You are a current typical member of the Cato Institute. You know, the Republican enclave who want to end ALL collective bargaining and lower taxes for the wealthy which are already at their lowest rates in living memory.
It is a well known fact that professional employees such as attorneys, IT professionals, scientists, engineers, etc. are Highly Underpaid in salary compared to the private sector.
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Charles, you are such a clown.Let me respond.
Your claims is NOT true for gov attorneys-the problem with attorneys is the Big law firms throw the average off in a BIG way.
http://www.nalp.org/startingsalarydistributionclassof2009
Most lawers in the private sector make around $50K or so, and that is working a 60 hour work week. Gov attorneys start higher-$80K in cahs salary and $40K in benefits- and tap out at $150K range working ONLY 40 hour work weeks. Most private sector law firms -outside of Big law- offer little to no benefits.
A GED cop in CA is compensated more than a Harvard Law Shcool graduate, because their compensation is in the $200K area for a 40 hour work week, while a HLS grad may start at $160K they are working 80-100 hour weeks, and have modest benefits. Think about that CVharles, the very best Law School graduates in this nation are being comped at a lower hourly rate than a GED cop or FF in CA.
“I retired at 90% of final salary after starting at the age of 18 and retiring at 59. Do I need to do Math 101 again? 59 – 18 = 41 years @ 59 years old, NOT 50 or 55.”
GED cops/ff’s retire at age 50 with 90% of salary-so you were not a cop or ff, doesn’t change the fact that cop and ff retire at age 50 with 90% of salary.
“Do your editorializing with facts, Lanny”
Charles, I say YOU need to stop spamming the baords with your bogus talking pointds which I just destroyed.
Lanny Ebenstein–a shill for the Koch Bros.
SeeSaw, I’m impressed … at least you didn’t call Lanny a “hater”.
Rex
“Charles, you are such a clown.Let me respond.
Your claims is NOT true for gov attorneys-the problem with attorneys is the Big law firms throw the average off in a BIG way.”
I suppose you think 3400 attorneys is a Small law firm?
Rex
“Gov attorneys start higher-$80K in cahs salary and $40K in benefits- and tap out at $150K range working ONLY 40 hour work weeks.”
Actually State Attorneys start at $56,000 per year with $17,000 in benefits and most have put in 40 hours by sometime Thursday. Of course they cannot make overtime, they are on salary. See DPA official site.
It is STILL a well known fact that professional employees such as attorneys, IT professionals, scientists, engineers, etc. are Highly Underpaid in salary compared to the private sector.
Rex
“A GED cop in CA is compensated more than a Harvard Law Shcool graduate, because their compensation is in the $200K area for a 40 hour work week while a HLS grad may start at $160K they are working 80-100 hour weeks”
Actually the average California State prison guard (not entry level) makes $32.08 per hour which is about $66,726.40 per year. Add about $25,000 in benefits and you get about $89,000 per year NOT $200,000. They would have to be working 44 hours each and every week for a year to pull this off.
Rex”
“so you were not a cop or ff”
And I never said I was. Prison guards and firefighters are not typical State employees either. Why not use average CHP wages and benefits?
Rex
“Charles, I say YOU need to stop spamming the baords with your bogus talking pointds which I just destroyed.”
I know you think facts are bogus when they don’t agree with you and, as usual, the only thing destroyed once again here was your credibility
Well said Lanny-
If your initiatives can prevail in California they would accomplish a number of profound things;
1)They would promptly stop the red ink from flowing from our budget,restoring services to the poor and needy.
2)They would end the cycle of corruption arising from the inherint conflict of interest that comes from elected officals approving the labor contracts for groups that contribute to their campaigns. Thus it would provide a new foundation for the citizen to trust their goverment which by the polls they presently do not.
3)They would change the power dynamic on all levels of state and local governemnt, taking tens of millions of dollars out of elections and making the candidates more directly answerable to the inidividual who are either tax payers or service recipients of this state. Additionally if public employee unions in California were no longer functioning, they could no longer use their money to advance their labor and non labor related causes throughout the US as California political money radites far outside this state and serves as a giant collection box for politicos of all stripes.
“Actually State Attorneys start at $56,000 per year with $17,000 in benefits and most have put in 40 hours by sometime Thursday. Of course they cannot make overtime, they are on salary. See DPA official site”
LOL!!!!!!Actually Gov attorneys start at $80K- and more- and tap out at $150K, plus $40K-$100K in benefits-and ONLY work 40 hours per week. Private sector attorneys work 60-100 hours per week and average about $50K. Nice try clown.
“Actually the average California State prison guard (not entry level) makes $32.08 per hour which is about $66,726.40 per year. Add about $25,000 in benefits and you get about $89,000 per year NOT $200,000. They would have to be working 44 hours each and every week for a year to pull this off.”
$32 PER HOUR STARTING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now add in another $35-$40 an hour in benefits and the total is well over $65 per hour BEFORE ANY OVERTIME is added in. The pensions costs alone are at least 75% of base salary. So once again, total compensation is around $150K, add in the $50K in OT and there you go, a GED educated prison guard is making MORE than th #1 Harvard Law School student.
BTW Charles, every public employee in this state has a benefit package EXCEEDING your joke claim of $25K. But when you spin like you do I guess you have trouble seperating reality from fantasy.
“Prison guards and firefighters are not typical State employees either. Why not use average CHP wages and benefits?”
They account for over 25% of the state budget, so they are typical.
Charles, your spin won’t work here buddy, we can shoot down your “talking points” all day long.
[...] In a piece written for Cal Watchdog, Ebenstein explains the rationale behind his initiatives. “Public-sector employees are overpaid,” he writes. “They are overpaid across the board, in salary, overtime, benefits, health insurance, days off, holidays, vacations, working conditions and, most of all, pensions. [...]
A 100% benefit package? I don’t think that is true–it could not happen. The standard is usually about 20-40%, depending on the positions. Whatever salary and benefits, they pay prison guards, its not enough. The dog would not last in that environment, for one day.
No, TL, Larry clearly isn’t just an ignorant hater. He’s a well paid shill for the most fringe of the anti-government employee contingent in our politics, and those people are most often ultra wealthy libertarians or extreme right wing Republicans with a strong libertarian lean on business regulations and government action.
It’s really very simple, TL. If you gut the compensation of government employees, people like the Koch brothers benefit in a number of ways. First, just reducing the size of government regulatory agencies means they can get away with many more illegal activities than would otherwise be possible, with a far reduced chance of being caught and brought to justice.
Second, reducing the pay and benefits of government employees means the jobs will be less attractive to intelligent people who respond to incentives like everyone else. That means the people who will come to work for the government will be less able to match their training and ambition with the hired guns of people like Koch, which leads back to the same lax regulatory environment in my first point.
All of this is easy to see, if you open your eyes just a little. What’s always surprising to me is that the same people who would gladly have our country evolve into a third-world economy, with elites at the very top being served by the modern day equivalent of serfs and peasants, have found more than a few of those potential peons as allies.
I attribute it to low intelligence and the Stockholm Syndrome.
Second, reducing the pay and benefits of government employees means the jobs will be less attractive to intelligent people who respond to incentives like everyone else.
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Totally false.
You ould have 500 job applicants-all qualified- for every ff and cop job in CA even if you cut he comp in half.
More sping from Mr Maytag…errr…….I mean Skippy.
All of this is easy to see, if you open your eyes just a little. What’s always surprising to me is that the same people who would gladly have our country evolve into a third-world economy, with elites at the very top being served by the modern day equivalent of serfs and peasants, have found more than a few of those potential peons as allies
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We have this right now, with gov trough feeding piglets at the top and the poor and middle class their serfs and peasants.
A 100% benefit package? I don’t think that is true–it could not happen.
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Public safety pensions cost MORE than the cash salary beinng paid if you use a legit ROI of 5%.
It’s amazing how the Public Employee’s Pension issue is such the “chic” and Politically acceptable topic to attack. California’s red-ink woes, obviously, would never be impacted by such things as super-entitlement programs for people here illegally. More insult to injury is the recently passed “Dream Act”…..talk about incentivizing the drive for more illegal immigration.
State of California is bleeding red in its attempt to feed, clothe, house, educate, and provide (Free) medical care to people who have broken the law entering our nation illegally. Try to do this in any other country and you get jail – not a menu of handouts and healthcare. However, this is such a “touchy” topic because the “latino vote” is so important to politicians (this latino vote only grows stronger every time there is an “Amnesty Program”)….so who can politicians pick on with little fear of reprisal?….the gov’t worker!!
At least the government workers are actually WORKING for the benefits they are receiving and paying taxes on the salaries they’re earning. Can’t say that same thing for those people that are here illegally and sucking the State dry. So keep on turning the “blind eye” to this huge issue and cost and keep on flogging the gov’t worker. Otherwise, the Politically Correct Police and Latino Coalition will certainly mobilize to quash anyone that dares to publically sound off to say “enough is enough” concerning the huge money trough of state funded benefits and perks that are laid out for people that are here illegally.
Fire all the prison guards and put the inmates on a bus to Rex the Wonder Dogs neighborhood!
[...] bargaining between public sector unions and California state and local governments. Now the California Center for Public Policy is gathering signatures for The End Public Sector Bargaining Initiative to be placed on the ballot [...]